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Herman Cillo's avatar

I have listened to the "down the rabbit hole" that covered Empress Theresa.

That was enough for me.

One of the most important things that has been drummed into my head is that I will never be above criticism. Even if by some miracle I end up with multi-million dollar success and movie deals and such, I will always want for a trusted editor or trusted alpha and beta readers to make sure I never end up like those famous authors who are not edited anymore, and who have novels that are inconsistent in their quality in their later works.

>.>

One of the first criticisms that I am still working on is brevity.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

It is a very succinct and excellent summary. But the post was about first lines, I just used ET as a jumping off point and example.

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Herman Cillo's avatar

>.>

Fair point. I got distracted by the big shiny example of badly done writing.

Regarding openings... It's hard to add to what you've already said.

They're tricky, and can take a lot of extra time. Or maybe it's not "extra" time because it might have needed a bunch of time to punch it up.

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Brian Lee Gnad's avatar

Personally, I call that sort of seeking feedback 'Rock Testing" dating from back in the 80s when the feedback request always started with the line "Am I stoned? Or is...."

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John Van Stry's avatar

I remember this... :-(

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

So do I, alas. But I'm getting better! They let me out of the strappy long-arm jacket for TWO hours a day, now!

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David Perlmutter's avatar

"...it’s basically the power fantasy of a frustrated elderly narcissist who had an obsession with Joan of Arc..."

That sounds a bit like Mark Twain, who wrote a fictionalized biography of the Maid of Orleans that serves as his only long-form "straight" piece of writing. (It was originally published under a pseudonym so it could be taken "seriously"). The difference is that Twain knew exactly what he was doing with the piece and the author you are criticizing clearly did not.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

I keep meaning to read Twain's book.

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Georg Felis's avatar

I've always been partial to the opening of "Soon I Will Become Invincible" by Austin Grossman. It sets the scene well.

This morning on planet Earth, there are one thousand, six hundred, and eighty-six enhanced, gifted, or otherwise-superpowered persons.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

It does at least also cause the question "How does he know with that level of precision?"

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Georg Felis's avatar

He's Doctor Impossible. In most stories, he would be a Mary Sue. He's so powerful he created his own nemesis or two just to have somebody to fight. In Grossman's hands, he becomes something special, the constantly asked question of One Punch Man for example. When you are this strong, so brilliant that all others seem like children...what do you do now?

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

I was not asking for an answer, I was underlining that the line conformed to my point.

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Melinda Allen's avatar

My personal favorite opening line is from David Weber’s “Oath of Swords”: “He shouldn’t have taken the shortcut.”

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John Van Stry's avatar

You do know who Tom Knighton is, right? I think he'll be at Libertycon.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

Tom and I are long time buds. We have bonded over Norm Boutin's idiocy at length. Along with Sandra Medlock, in fact.

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John Van Stry's avatar

That's actually kinda cool, to be honest.

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Charles Fout's avatar

The novel seems like bad fan fiction of the old Twilight zone episode, "It's a Good Life," by someone who got the moral of the story exactly backwards.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

You're not wrong, except that I think Boutin would scoff at the Very Idea that he would watch trashy TeeVee.

Me, I think Rod Serling was an absolute genius.

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Brian Lee Gnad's avatar

You only think that because he was.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

_Patterns_ was, and remains, one of the best examples of turning audience expectations against them, ever. Utterly logical, utterly fair, and yet, you are so conditioned by that type of story that when the climax keeps going, you are utterly gobsmacked.

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JP Johnson's avatar

It was drummed into my head in school (70s) about the importance of the opening line. That first line is both a hook and a kind of general statement about what the reader is about to see. Blow the first line and you probably blow the first paragraph. I have spent a good deal of time thinking about the first line of a story. Probably too much time to be honest.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

And this is why I hate literature being taught in schools, because most teachers will arse it up.

Make. The reader. WANT. To keep reading.

That's all. Everything else is negotiable.

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Sara the Editor's avatar

How can anyone have so little self awareness??

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

It truly is a wonder, is it not? :)

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Sara the Editor's avatar

I couldn't even approach these levels when I was 19 and writing my first book with no editorial guidance and didn't know what passive voice was yet....

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

The amount of speculation as to what exactly is wrong with Norman, and if it was inborn or occurred during his life, and how many bodies are buried in his basement, is gargantuan. Nothing about his approach to anything falls within the realms of the normal.

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Sandra L. Medlock's avatar

Wow. 11 years ago LaForce posted in Sarah's Diner about this strange book and writer and I started down the rabbit hole. Used it in my writing classes as what not to do. Debunked the claim that if a teacher showed kids a few book covers they would always pick ET over the others. Got my review featured on Boutin's website as "suspicious" (he didn't think I was an educator) but he eventually got the review yanked by AMZ. Participated in the 10K thread under a pseudonym. NB was everything I didn't want new writers to become.

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Brian Lee Gnad's avatar

Ouch! Thanks for the warning to stay away from that "rabbit hole" Oi!

And I still think that the ILoH's opening to the first MHI book is also rather eppic and worthy of inclusion. :)

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

I admit that I'm in the minority on this, but to me, that one is too wordy and feels like it's trying too hard. (Which is eminently forgivable, as it's his first book; and as a first book, it's leaps and bounds better than most.)

Now, I probably could have done any of Larry's Grimnoir books, as his writing in those is stellar.

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Brian Lee Gnad's avatar

Be that as it may, I still love it. And I will not claim that I am competent to contradict you.

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Mary Catelli's avatar

It's almost as if there were different reading audiences out there.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

Nothing wrong with loving it. And, as I say, I'm in the minority.

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Sara the Editor's avatar

I looked at the Amazon reviews. God help me, I then read his website. It looks like a self-obsessed twelve year old wrote it on Tumblr.

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D. Jason Fleming's avatar

You found his website? I thought it was gone.

And an obsessed twelve year old on Tumblr would have more control over tone and style.

I apologize for sending you down the rabbit hole, but I DID try to warn you. :)

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